So I began to think about everyones issue with wheels and shake since mine was similar- might not be a bad idea to measure your hubs on the wheels and see what they are. Mine were definitely larger than advertised. So if your getting a perfect balance on the hunter roadforce machine and not on the rig- it could be the hubs on the wheels are slightly oversized and allowing the wheels to center at 1st and over time shift since the acorn style lugs arent designed to hold the wheel in place. This could also explain why some have no shake at 1st and then get it later on.

Might be worth measuring...

While this may be what causes a similar shaking issue for some. If one is truely having the real shake issue, this will not matter. Those of us that have expereinced real shake know that it will happen if the wheels are hubcentric or not.

 

Which is strange since hub centric wheels are usually required. Every time I've purchased wheels in the past, if the vehicle required hub centric they would either provide the ring spacers or have wheels made with the correct hubs (like I thought mine was)

 

I hear ya.


Though I know it has nothing to do with the "true shake" issue for a couple reasons.
1. I added them (centering rings) to non-hubcentric wheels that I was having the issue with and there was no change
2. Some are having the issue with OEM hubcentric wheels.
3. My wheels are currently not hubcentric and I'm not having the issue at the present

 

Last winter I had found a really long thread on this over in the Tacoma forum, and one of the fellows there made a really good arguement for the hub rings if needed. However, I don't see how this accounts for all the shaky FJs because a lot of the folks with the problem are running stock wheels which are the exact 106.2 mm or whatever it is exactly. I know ldqchkn above told me the hub rings didn't help him. Unquestionably though, if you're running 108 mm aftermarket wheels its definitely something you've gotta try because they're rather cheap. I suppose though there is the other side of the issue regarding how well/correctly the aftermarket wheels were mounted on the balance machine too.

 

Mine are not machine mounted nor balanced- beadlock wheels have no outer lip like conventional tires- they dont hold the tire in place with friction like conventional wheels do either. The outer ring clamps or "locks" the tire to the rim so it cannot spin or come off the bead. This allows the tires to be lowered to zero psi and not walk off a rim

Sounds like you have the wrong style lugs for your wheel or your wheel is hubcentric in design and like you found out, requires a hubcentric ring/spacer to fit properly.

Normally, if a wheel has a larger hub bore than the hub, the wheel is designed to be lugcentric, where the lug design and wheel design work together to center the wheel on the hub.

Not my 1st rodeo- I know what conical seat lugs look like- these are that design. The fact they do have a lug centric design is what drove me to question them to begin with but that rule doesnt always apply since many manufactures are Hub centric and still use conical seats

In my particular case I measured my aftermarket wheels with an engineer's scale (tenth of an inch graduations), as I didn't have a mechanic's micrometer (I'm not a mechanic). It looked kind of close to 108 mm, which I came to understand was kind of a standard for large truck aftermarket wheels. So I ordered a set of 108 mm hub rings from Amazon.com. When they came I discovered I couldn't fit them in my wheels! They were a hair to big. So I pulled out the scale and tried to measure my wheels again, and this time I was more careful. This time I came up with 106.8 mm instead of 108 mm. So when I did the math it comes up to like a seventy-second of an inch difference (0.6 mm). When I slip one of my aftermarket wheels on the FJ hub I can't - try as I might - move it up or down any more than I can with the stock wheels. I mean, if they fit much tighter I'd have to grease them to get 'em on! So after my experience with that I kind of discounted this issue as being a possible solution to my shake problems. By the way, my aftermarket wheels are American Racing. And they ARE NOT 108 mm, but rather something like 106.8 mm.

Thats great- this was my case and just a suggestion to an issue- chill out

Let me add, many believe that your studs are not designed to take a perpindicular load and feel the hub should take all of the up/down load on a hub.

This is where it is important to know the hub size of the after market wheel.

Alot of wheels have a 108mm hub. So you would need a hubcentric ring like this:

Gorilla Automotive 108-106.1 Wheel Hub Centric Rings (108mm OD x 106.1mm ID) - Pack of 4 : Amazon.com : Automotive

This is basically a 1mm thin piece of plastic you mount into the wheel hub. This may help increase the longevity of the studs and help with vibration. However the lugs with a conical bottom and a matching seat on the wheel will still center the wheel on the hub. It just becomes a preference of where the load of teh vehicle rests, the hub or studs.

If you hub difference is bigger, a hubcentric ring may become more valuable.

If the wheel is not lugcentric, meaning it uses lugs like the factory FJ lugs which are not conical but flat, you will absolutely need hubcentric rings.

Clear as mud right?

Ummmm. Did you read my 1st post- thats exactly what I just did :lol: Again- not always correct since the purpose of lugs is to hold the wheel in tension and this is ensured by having the correct nut to match the wheel- many hubcentric wheels have conical seats as well.

I worked for a dairy processing plant, they bought a tractor and it needed rubber. The guy before had put golf balls inside for balancing, the balls destroyed the inside of the tires to the point the cases were useless. The funny thing the tires were cupped and the mechanic who drove it to the plant said it felt like the tires were bouncing up and down.The only balancing media I have found were tiny balls of ceramic, they were guaranteed not to hurt the tire or rim, I don't remember the name of the company. A lot of the custom bike builders were using these to balance tires on custom rims. The problem with these are if the installer used to much installation lube the beads would clump there. The concentric rings will make balancing a pain, I found this out when reinstalling the stock wheels back on my wife Sonata, the wheels I bought from Discount tire came with plastic rings, they stuck to the hub, the stock wheel didn't use the rings.

That must be an issue with the tires being aired down so much in the mud they sat on the golf balls- mine haven't dont anything to either the tire carcass or the balls- they still had the writing on them even after banging around the inside

Most off road trucks use tennis balls and golf balls and except for really aired down situations- they work perfectly

:cheers:

 

Sounds like you have the wrong style lugs for your wheel or your wheel is hubcentric in design and like you found out, requires a hubcentric ring/spacer to fit properly.

Normally, if a wheel has a larger hub bore than the hub, the wheel is designed to be lugcentric, where the lug design and wheel design work together to center the wheel on the hub.

 

In my particular case I measured my aftermarket wheels with an engineer's scale (tenth of an inch graduations), as I didn't have a mechanic's micrometer (I'm not a mechanic). It looked kind of close to 108 mm, which I came to understand was kind of a standard for large truck aftermarket wheels. So I ordered a set of 108 mm hub rings from Amazon.com. When they came I discovered I couldn't fit them in my wheels! They were a hair to big. So I pulled out the scale and tried to measure my wheels again, and this time I was more careful. This time I came up with 106.8 mm instead of 108 mm. So when I did the math it comes up to like a seventy-second of an inch difference (0.6 mm). When I slip one of my aftermarket wheels on the FJ hub I can't - try as I might - move it up or down any more than I can with the stock wheels. I mean, if they fit much tighter I'd have to grease them to get 'em on! So after my experience with that I kind of discounted this issue as being a possible solution to my shake problems. By the way, my aftermarket wheels are American Racing. And they ARE NOT 108 mm, but rather something like 106.8 mm.

 

Let me add, many believe that your studs are not designed to take a perpindicular load and feel the hub should take all of the up/down load on a hub.

This is where it is important to know the hub size of the after market wheel.

Alot of wheels have a 108mm hub. So you would need a hubcentric ring like this:

Gorilla Automotive 108-106.1 Wheel Hub Centric Rings (108mm OD x 106.1mm ID) - Pack of 4 : Amazon.com : Automotive

This is basically a 1mm thin piece of plastic you mount into the wheel hub. This may help increase the longevity of the studs and help with vibration. However the lugs with a conical bottom and a matching seat on the wheel will still center the wheel on the hub. It just becomes a preference of where the load of teh vehicle rests, the hub or studs.

If you hub difference is bigger, a hubcentric ring may become more valuable.

If the wheel is not lugcentric, meaning it uses lugs like the factory FJ lugs which are not conical but flat, you will absolutely need hubcentric rings.

Clear as mud right?

 

I worked for a dairy processing plant, they bought a tractor and it needed rubber. The guy before had put golf balls inside for balancing, the balls destroyed the inside of the tires to the point the cases were useless. The funny thing the tires were cupped and the mechanic who drove it to the plant said it felt like the tires were bouncing up and down.The only balancing media I have found were tiny balls of ceramic, they were guaranteed not to hurt the tire or rim, I don't remember the name of the company. A lot of the custom bike builders were using these to balance tires on custom rims. The problem with these are if the installer used to much installation lube the beads would clump there. The concentric rings will make balancing a pain, I found this out when reinstalling the stock wheels back on my wife Sonata, the wheels I bought from Discount tire came with plastic rings, they stuck to the hub, the stock wheel didn't use the rings.

 

I've been lurking on these shake posts for a while now and have no solutions to offer but wanted to add another case to the pile.
2013 TT w/ TRD wheels and BFG A/T's (standard TT I assumed). For me, first 5k miles no shakes at all. First tire rotation and the shakes are now a part of my daily drive at 55-65mph. :huh:

I'm taking it in to the dealership at the end of next week since they are doing the oil change and seatbelt recall, they assured me that the road force machine would remedy the issue. After reading all of the posts on this board i'm wee bit skeptical.

I have next to zero tire/wheel knowledge but here is a summary of what I understand as potential solutions posted here:

1) Toyota agreed to replace tires for someone, issue was the BFG A/Ts
2) Extra (8lbs if I remember) of weights added to balance tires (no clue how this would work)
3) Hunter GSP9700 w/latest software and smart weight feature road force and forcematch the wheel and tire combo balance with very detailed formula.
4) Rigs with Suspension upgrades /lifts don't seem have the issue...right?
5) Buy a Prius and tow the FJ behind it.

If I should be armed with any specific info to present to the dealership, I'm all ears.

 

Did you track what wheels went where when they rotated. Sounds like you had a perfectly balanced set on the front but one of the rears or spare was off. So when it was moved to the front, you now feel the vibration.

With the TRD wheels, the fake bead lock ring has been a source of balancing issues.

 

Toyota finally replaced my E-Rated BFG LT265/75R16 with C-Rated Goodyear Duratrac LT265/75R16 tires. At the same time, I removed the fake bead lock rings, which added about 2-3 pounds to each tire. Bolt holes were sealed with plastic 8mm caps. I am running these new tires at 35 psi (the old recommended 2008 TT pressure), which is well within the safe range of 29-50 psi for all C-Rated tires.

No more steering wheel vibrations at 55-65 mph.

 

^^^You should chalk test your fronts at 35psi. If I remember right that was a little under inflated for mine. I run 40psi front and rear, which seems to be even in the front and a tad over inflated in the rear (with no weight)

 

Hunter GSP9700 w/latest software and smart weight feature road force and forcematch the wheel and tire combo balance with very detailed formula.

According to Kinglenario's standard fix, which was determined by Bubasracecar back in 2006, that 'Smartweight' feature absolutely must be turned off! According to Bubasracecar, that 'smartweight' feature has some utility for applications that aren't particularly sensitive, but Toyota's vehicles don't fall anywhere near that category. So the question is in many cases whether the operator has the skill and/or desire to operate the Hunter machine in its most 'manual' mode. Note that Toyota itself said, in that TSB for the 'Lexus Steering Wheel Flutter', that that 'Smart Weight' feature must be turned off!

 

You should chalk test your fronts at 35psi. If I remember right that was a little under inflated for mine. I run 40psi front and rear, which seems to be even in the front and a tad over inflated in the rear (with no weight)

I think WarWagon's are C Load Range, and your 285s are D Load Range Brian?

 

Ummm yup guess so.

 

Mine are 265/75R16 C-Rated. The 285's can actually run with less pressure.

Mine chalk test nicely at 35 psi. At 38-40 psi I had about 1/2" not touching the edges. I'll probably run these at 37 with the winter coming.

 

The Hunter9700 Road Force Balancing procedure posted on this forum does work, and I would strongly suggest trying it. The Smart Balance feature has to be disabled on the Hunter9700.

Out of the 8 BFG tires they tried to balance, only 2 could be balanced within spec (not requiring excessive weights).

This procedure takes a lot longer to do and I had to shop around town before someone could actually figure the procedure out (3 different tire shops). They also have to use the Toyota hub centric attachment.

 

These things can run on for months, with a lot of finger pointing. 4 months total, then I had to buy the new tires myself, and submit receipts, add another month of waiting.


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Sounds like fun, can't wait. I'll post my "fix" if that ever comes.:cheers:

 

The shakes are gone...for now at least. I didn't have a chance to speak to the service manager in detail but he advised that it was a balancing issue (props to title/author of this thread) and he advised that they were .4 OOB (tires were out of balance is typed on the reciept).

The following line item also appears: OP=042214 0.6 042214A 0.4 "Rebalanced 4 tires"

Probably safe to assume this line item is a description of the balancing solution. Not exactly sure what it means but figure the experts here may.

The other thing to note, my tires are now back in their original position where I didn't have the shake issue for the 1st 5k miles. It could be that I get the shakes back at the next rotation when they put the back tires up front again. Psi for all 4 tires set at 35.

Hope that's somewhat helpful :cheers:

 

I just wanted to follow up. I had my 15000 mile service and tires were rotated with the back set put back up front. This is the position I originally noticed the shakes (after my first rotation at (5000) so I was concerned that once these tires were rotated up front again that the shakes would return. I'm happy to report no shakes at 60 miles an hour or any other speed. I have to believe that this is just a balancing issue.

 

So glad I found this thread. Thank you Old Cruiser.

2012 FJ. Upon purchasing the vehicle the dealer agreed to swap out the factory TRD wheels for a set of ATX Mojave, 16x8 wheels. Factory BGF' stayed on.

Rotation and balancing at 5000 - no shake. Same at 15,000, with spare rotated into the mix. Still no shake.

Now at 20,000. Took it to the shop thats been balancing them from day 1 and they can't get them to balance. uh oh. Shaking is in the steering wheel and in the seat. 4 different days and no luck.

Took it to another shop - Their solution was to stick weights on the outside of the wheels. Not pretty and still not balanced front or rear.

So now I'm contemplating taking it to the dealer, since they put the wheels on the truck and have them find a shop that will road force balance them. $25 per wheel. Both dealers near me do not have a balance machine. Or option 2 is to order hub centric rings for the Mojave's (no idea if they'll even accept the rings...) and see if that helps.

I also heard that the center caps on the ATX Mojave's are supposed to "act" as hub centric rings. wtf? That seems hair ball. I'm also contemplating removing those center caps to see if that will help. Maybe it's working in opposition to the lugs?

Man this is frustrating.

 

got to say you have nailed the solution the only drama I am not sure which spacer to buy if you could send me the item I can order it.i got the ****s so much with this I bough a balancer and a tyre fitting machine .please if you can let me know which spacers do I need the 106 or 108?

 

^^^You need 106 for the Toyota hub and the other size is whatever the center bore on your wheels is.

I'm running 108 bore wheels without the centering ring. You just gotta tighten your wheels evenly. I had a plastic ring from gorilla but at on 1mm thickness all around i was more worried about breaking/cracking the dang thing.

just tighten your wheels evenly with 3 lug nuts until the wheel is snug and it should center itself fine, especially if youre using ET style lugs

 

Just an update, my 2013TT stock wheels/tires update. I've finally determined (and I believe someone else mentioned this somewhere) that my shake only occurs when the 2back tires are rotated up front. The shakes didn't start until after the first rotation,3rd and came back on the last rotation. I had to have them road force balance to fix the first time, the 3rd rotation I just dealt with it and avoided driving right at 60mph until my rotation this week. Sure enough, front tires are back in the front and no shakes.

Of course the stealership recommended that I road Force balance them with the free rotation for only $39.99. HAHAHAHA. I decided to drive it home first and turns out there will be no need to balance them until my next rotation.

This leads me to believe that either the AT's that came on the 2013TT truck in the back are faulty (as others have suggested) or the wear generated on the back tires during the initial break in period warps them forever (my own stupid conclusion).

Either way after 20K miles, I freaking love this rig!!!!